@littledickslave@yahoo.com Thank you, this is just the start of Callum’s story, we see him go from buff straight guy, massive cock to gay Twink Sub with a boy clit. I’m thoroughly enjoying writing this.

@[Anon](/user/show/10049352) The idea is that the West is more rooted in the warrior-culture where the bond and intimacy between men is crucial to survival, hence their more lax stance on homoeroticism. However, thought of laying down with men or romantic relation is still very much a taboo, considering that their masculine warrior idea being men have to do the fucking as a top, not a bottom. The family ritual is a reflection of this, though it is more of their thing rather than the region as a whole. As for Gil's fate, this is planned to be a short story with three parts and will likely beco tained within the family and their land. I don't think there is a perfect ending for Gil here, but it begs to wonder what fate would make him the happiest -- whether it is becoming another horny pup, escaping or trying to vanquish the force that corrupts his family, or maybe somewhere in between. The family motto is, "In winter we hunt, in summer we kill". Breeding is something added onto by the malevolent force corrupting them. Or maybe it is part of the original motto, forgotten with time. I do think that Peter and try to ensure that Gil will be having a good time with them. Out of the brothers, I am most at a loss with Jonathan. He is really there to make Gil not the youngest because being the youngest son of a noble house would pile on another set of angst that does not fil the vibe I was aiming for. So he is just...there at the moment. There are themes in the story that I am afraid that I won't be able to convey properly, inclduing body dysmorphia on Gil's part. Describing the transformed appearance is also a dilemma for me, I think. I am not sure if I should keep them as mutated humans with wolvish traits or go full werewolf mode. I'm glad that you like Ruby! I do have a larger role for her in the story.

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) Yup, I can definetly see that with Rafaael's thoughts. In the west in this story, to be a bottom is to be seen as shameful as it's not "manly". Very much like the old greco-roman view then. Makes sense the bonding ritual is a them thing though, as it would be derived from the western warrior-culture and bonding rituals, similar in context then to the sacred band of thebes, as well as spartan soldiers. As for Gil, I can imagine him perhaps resisting at first, because he is truly afraid not only for the safety of his family, but others. Maybe he'd join only if he can find a way to ensure that his family and others do not potentially lose their minds to this and wind up causing trouble for themselves or others. Unlike the others however, there likely isn't a way to just directly get Gil involved in whatever transformative affects are going on with the others (though henrich is probably plotting something about that). Peter and the others definetely will try to make sure Gil is having a good time with them. I honestly believe that if they wind up hurting him or worse wind up damaging their relashionship with them right after he came back after such a long time, it would destroy them emotionally. I don't think they'd be able to handle it. Peter would likely completely fall apart- heck, if Gil distances himself because he's somewhat shaken by what is going on right now- it's entirely possible he may well have a really bad time dealing with the fallout. He might feel guilt that his attempt to bring him into the fold not only backfired, but actively made things worse. Worse, he might fear that in trying to make him one of them, he and the others are treating him like prey. That in their new state of mind would likely utterly taboo and horrific. As for Jonathan, he seems to be much more in tune with his heritage- he is a hunter. And hunters are driven, focused and more importantly, known for lethality and intensity, as well as patience. In regards to Gil, he might fully embrace being a beast due to being a hunter already, but he may understand why Gil is so frightened, but may approach the problem by simply being patient and trying to convince him, though in an intense matter. However, his desire for him would likely run hot and passionate, as with the others- he would just be less open about it and possibly more stern in demeanor, but it is there. He too, like the others, is likely displeased that Gil cannot be one of them right from the get go. Essentially, he's the youngest, and perhaps the quietest, but also a very good hunter. However, he still has love for his family and brothers- if he is a wolf, he is not a rowdy, racuous kind- but a cold, methodical hunter- but with no less love for his family. As for body dysmorphia, I feel like perhaps having them only partially transform may be more intriguing. Going full werewolf permanently may be more interesting for shock effect, but I feel that with slight changes, you may be able to portray the body dysmorphia more effectively, as it's less intense potentially. With full werewolf shift and in a permanent manner (no human form at all), it's highly possible that Gil would likely be severely overwhelmed with dysmorphia and the story would realistically probably turn into the entire family having a major moment of realization that they may have just severely harmed their brother by giving him a body that doesn't exactly fit, and then freaking out over what to do. Peter would probably be emotionally destroyed because he'd think he wound up causing such for Gil. Henrich would probably have a major moment of realization that humans might be weak, but he might have just condemned one of his sons to a lifetime of misery which no sexual pleasure or familial love can abate. The other brothers probably wouldn't be doing any better. Unlike them, Gil isn't of their bloodline. So instead of them having fun together, it's likely Gil would be having to cope with severe bodily changes and likely have declining mental health, on top of whatever troubled feelings he has over his brothers actions while they were transformed. Realistically, the story would go from sensual transformative to a raw work on Gil having to figure out how to come to terms with his body, with the entire family having to deal with the fallout. On the other hand, such a scenario could foster an interesting dynamic between Peter and Gil as they come to terms with things. That's not getting into how the family would be able to disguise their changes- if they shift full werewolf and stay that way permanently with no human form, they'd be found out fast- but if it's human with some wolvish traits or being able to shift out of wolf form and into a human form- an air of mystery can ensue. The family may look human, and can be human in speech and act- but they are not just human. It'd be like taking off a mask- becoming closer to their heritage as a house that holds to the wolf- and the family wants that for Gil too. They love him, and they wish that for him too- to be whole with him as a pack. Essentially, they are still human in appearance, but not entirely in essence. It's a more esoteric nature on the matter, but I feel a full shift, with no human form at all, while more transformative, would bring up a lot of narrative challenges that would need to be adressed. Of course, this is your story, and you may do as you see fit. Alternatively, you could have them have a human and wolf form, but the human form has wolfish traits in subtle ways (perhaps more hair, sharper canines, slight claws, etc.), with the wolf form possibly being bipedal (two legged if you wish to go the big werewolf mode style) or quadruped (four legged for a realistic wolf shift). It would mean that they would have to balance their humanity with their wolfish nature, something that could serve as a conflict within the others and Henrich himself, as they need to uphold a human persona and sate their wolfish instincts. Personally, the idea that they still retain a human form in some form while being distinctly non human in some ways make the transformation more subtle, and more impactful. If you mean werewolf in the context of shifting from a human to wolf form, I think it would work well- though the dysmorphia would need to be handled on Gil's end- I think it would be possible. Personally, now that I think of it, the idea of them all being able to transform into wolves, but also having a human form would be very fascinating. Pemanently becoming a wolfish creature however I think wouldn't work though. But again, that is up to you. Personally, I think the idea of them having a bipedal werewolf form and a humanoid form with wolfish characteristics (which are slightly more subtle than their werewolf form) would be fascinating. Perhaps the humanoid form could have slight tells like slight claws, a keener sense of smell, sharper canines, increased strength, and perhaps some wolfish instincts like trying to rub themselves into objects or people to leave their scent, possibly through increased physical affection and intimacy- both sexual and platonic. Their sense may be heightened, and possibly their ability to fight tactically on the battlefield. Their werewolf forms would likely incorporate more animal characteristics, but they would likely retain their rationality to some degree. I think if you go with a werewolf shifting form for them (human and wolf form), then Gil's dysp could be processed by having the family console him and try to make things easier for him as he gets used to things. I do look forward to seeing Ruby. She and Rudolf are adorable together. I hope that even if Rudolf remains transformed, their love does not fade. I can imagine if Henrich tries to pull that humans are weak point on Rudolf regarding Ruby, he'd probably fight for her, or at least show some disapproval. The family probably believes that humans are weaker than they are (which isn't wrong in a physical sense), but I don't think they'd let that get to their heads and make them arrogant (hopefully). As for Gil's fate, I think him just becoming a subservient pup with little emotional intimacy involved would probably be the last thing any of the family want. They love him far beyond just that. Even if Gil took on a subservient role with them, it would be one of devotion on both ends, rather than simply for sex. Possibly a very sensual and rough devotion, but devotion and love oriented nonetheless. However, I think Gil would only let that happen if he could save his family members from going completely feral in doing so. It would also be a way for the family to break from the idea that being the receiving partner is shameful, because if they would still hold to such, they would need to call Gil shameful, which they would never do. I am intrigued over how Gil is going to react to things. What happened with Peter came out of nowhere in his perspective, and he might be very shaken up about it. Peter on the other hand might be at a loss for what to do. I just realized that your mention of werewolf likely meant that gil and the others will have a human and wolf form. So in that sense, my apologies if I misconstrued that.

@[Anon](/user/show/10049352) I think that how much of the rational mind is retained is incremental based on hierarchy, with the family having the same intelligence, maybe even enhanced, while the lesser wolves transformed by them are still humsn to certain degrees, though more outwardly feral. They would be invariably sex-obsessed, however. It would a reason that Gil's conversion has to be a bit more convoluted than just infecting him outright, so that he would retain enough faculties to enjoy the new state of life with them. Jonathan will have a much easier time adjusting, I think, and Henrich will enjoy bonding with his youngest son. They have always liked hunting together, humans would more a more challenging quarry than wild animals. Maybe he could even teach his older brothers avthing or two. When I referred to the body dysmorphia, I actually thinking about Gil's want, actually. He is experiencing the constant dissatdfaction with his own appearance and longs to be a macho giant like his adopted family. If he simply joins them outright and gets the body he desires (ie.becoming another giant dark haired hulking warrior) it would feel somewhat disingenuous and dilutes the theme of familial love that extends beyond genetics. On the other hand, imagining Gil slowly losing his humanity and starting to resemble his family morr and more while trying to deceive himself that he does want this deep down is kinda fun. It's my personal preference, but I dont't like to put my main character into a purely submissive role, especially if there is humiliation involved. It's a huge turn-off for me personally. So if Gil ends up as a pup, he would still get to stand beside his family with pride one way or another. I still haven't decided on the appearance of the transformed men yet though. Being bipedal wolf-men does sound fun. The thing is since the goal of the "villains" here is not total domination, but reclamation of some form, subtlety is not that necessary here. I do worry about Ruby's role though, because she will largely be a plot-driving character who, for obvious reason, won't be featured much in hot scenes. She would ideally not drag the story too much.

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) The hierarchy detailing intelligence seems an interesting point, but since that has a genetic component, how that will affect gil would be interesting. I wonder though, if the lesser ranks have more feral tendencies, does that mean they are more animalistic while still retaining intelligence? So still somewhat rational but more beholden to instinct? It'd be interesting to see a lesser ranked wolf be mostly still intelligent but also really feral. Though when it comes to wolves, strict dominance dynamics are more present in captive settings. In the wild, the breeding group holds power and all others hold roles and do active tasks, though there is still a hierarchy of sorts. Though I might be getting a little over analytical thinking which dynamic is being out to play here and how that'll affect gil and the others. In that sense, the lesser ranks becoming feral and not so rational would likely harm the structure of whatever pack is forming here. I might be taking this too seriously though. Okay in that sense gils body issues make sense. I was thinking more in the sense of losing a human form and the issues therein. I guess with gil, even if he becomes a pup, the family will not see him in the light of shaming him as per western custom for being a receiving partner. As for Ruby, I think she could be an interesting foil to rudolf as he navigates his relations with her and the family. Obviously, this story will focus more on the male to male dynamics, but I think ruby wouldn't drag on the story so long as she doesn't just get relegated into not being important. Even in this chapter, i liked her brief appearence- it shows Rudolf has people other than his family that he knows in a positive way, and that the concept of breeding isn't just in a same sex sense. Though rafaael also shows this. A little part of me wonders how the changes would affect offspring or mothers with hybrid children, but that's probably beyond this story's purview. Either way I like ruby's wit and demeanor. As for wolf forms, I think a bipedal form would work. Either with more or less direct wolf traits. The reclamation factor I think would dictate this. Clearly the house of wolfheim knows this wolf is presence that's shifting them. So then it seems an ancestor of the house made a pact with them. In that sense, it's likely they gained some wolfish traits but retained a humanoid body. Otherwise there probably would have been legends of wolfmen amongst the records of the house or in popular conciousness. I think the family members gaining more intelligence due to the shift, while others possibly becoming a bit more feral, but not losing their wits as they are not directly integrated with wolfblood seems likely. I kind of find that fascinating too- gil might think his family is lost to him only to realize no they still recognize and have their senses- they just are different now. I think right now, gil is scared he's lost his family and will be harmed by them. That's the fear Peter felt. A small part of me wonders if in trying to convince gil over, the family makes it clear that even if he looks different he is theirs. That there is no shame in his appearance. He'll probably bulk up, but hin retaining his gold coloration of hair and brown ehes would be a way to highlight that while he may not be of their blood, he is theirs, and nobody can take him from them.

@Anon Thank you for the insight! The knowledge is new to me. I would imagine that the "Wolf-men" in this setting possess the part that is rational and "human" used for conniving and navigating politics, and the "feral" part. The feral part makes every wolf aware of the dynamics ingrained into them. The family are more able to juggle and switch the two at will, and the lesser converted are stuck with the feral side, but their "feralness" would beholden them to their alphas nevertheless, even if they still acted "human". While I have the ending planned, the surrounding details are still up in the air. Whether he remains fully human, partially corrupted, fully corrupted, or whether he looks the same or differently, bulks up a little, a lot, or not at all, there would be an opportunity for eroticism either way. It is fun to come up with different kinky scenarios for our hero. Personally, I do think that whether he has lesrned to accept his appearance or finally received the body he has always wanted or somewhere in between, there would be an opportunity for both hot and heartwarming scenes either way. Either way, the family will learn the joy of being a vers, topping and bottoming for each other like the virile manly beasts they have been turned into. Ruby will be a part of Rudolph's story for sure, but I think her role would expand a bit further than that. The family of course have other people outside of the family they will want to convert. Henrich's wartime friends, servants and the minor nobles enamoured with Raft's charm, Pete's duelling partners, Johny's hunting buddies (his entourage). Once the familial matter is dealt with, they will target them next. To be honest, I try using Ai generated images with different prompt to determine what the best looks for the transformed family and the potential future for Gil would be. I do think I will dtick some of them into future chapters. Seeing that you have already detected the paganistic-esque inspiration for the story, I do hope that I will be able to keep you entertained with the plot nevertheless.

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) I see... so it's more that amongst lower ranking members, their natures are somewhat blurred. It isn't so much that they lose their wits, but a more wolfish demeanor influences them in greater degree. However, I suspect qualities which are altruistic or of a more compassionate nature will not be subdued by such a change. We see that even amongst the family, Peter and the others clearly still show compassion for Gil. Peter recoils at the idea that Gil is anything but theirs, and the others are displeased by his fear and do not wish to hurt him. It does make sense that the lower ranks would likely look to the family as their leaders- in essence, it's a bit of a twining of human and wolf dynamics. The idea of the family becoming vers helps break that notion that being a bottom is shameful, which also helps with leaving Rafaael to not be in distress over himself. Them wanting to bring more people into the fold that they care about also makes sense after the family is completed. I do wonder how that would go. Probably just like how this going most likely, with some interesting shifts and conversations per the situation. And yes, as soon as I saw the being Henrich saw, I immediately assumed that a spirit of some sort was involved in this- one that had helped the house prior in the distant past. As for Gil's fate, I think that a major conflict of his right now is feeling that because he doesn't look like a westerner (or is one), he is lesser than his family, and that percolates into why he set out to become a knight and all else- to prove he is worthy of the care they gave him. But his family could give care less about that (his origins), and love him dearly. I think that even if Gil transforms, if he keeps his eastern looks even after being transformed to some degree, it signifies that even though he may look different, he is no less part of the house of wolfheim. He may be a ward, but he is not alien to it. Thus, while he may transform, such does not deny his foreign origin. It also resolves Gil's guilt by making it clear that just because he looks different from his family does not make such shameful. Making him look like the rest I feel sends a message that he only becomes a part of the pack by looking like them, which is something that we see the family categorically rejects as a belief in this story- they don't care that he looks different, or is smaller than them, or not related by blood to them- Gil is theirs. All in all, I think even if Gil transforms to some degree, him keeping his eastern looks but also being a part of the family showcases that the pack doesn't care about how Gil looks, but love him for his loyalty to them- as a brother and as a son. He may be different in his origins, but he is theirs. Though of course, this is your story, and you may do as you please. I do look forward to seeing Ruby again- I loved the tender yet witty banter between her and Rudolf. And yes, using AI software (in this case images) to see how a story's outcome or how a scene looks can be fascinating- I've done such in the past myself often out of curiosity's sake and while it can be kind of a hit or miss situation at items, sometimes they can generate things that can be very insightful.

@Anon Vassals or pack members, they would look up to their masters all the same. Unlike in Knightly Duties, the story here is much narrower in scope. The family will always be the focus, and they will like employ the "convert first, talk later" approach here. I do have reasons as to why wolf-men conversion spreads easier here than demonic one, which will be touched on a bit later later chapter. The story will also be largely Gil-centric, each additional member added to the pack will serve to warrant some reactions from him. While I will avoid spoiling my planned ending, I do hope that you will like Gil's ultimate fate. Altruism, philosophically, is very hard to define. In corruption stories, I prefer that loving intimacy be retained, but does the retention of affection for their loved one equates altruism? Just because you do not want to hurt your family does not mean you can't be absolutr menace to others. And intrinsically, transforming someone through dubious consent is rather icky, morally speaking. It is a really interesting topic.

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) I think when it comes to altruism, we can see that with the transformed there is affection for their loved ones. Had they fully fallen into simply wanting pleasure of a physical sort, even that wouldn't be present- it would unbridled hedonism without any affection for anything- which one usually sees in a lot of transformation stories- which if read straight would plainly be horror stories (there was a story I read once of a man's family being taken over by an interloper and being essentially thrown out of it as they were transformed- and frankly it read less like something erotic and more like a tragedy). The dubious nature of the transformation does leave ambiguity on the matter, but the intent is to bond with their loved ones and be closer, not to hurt them, which is at lest a positive-ish intent, though the forcible nature of such a change is also there. We see this with Peter- he does want Gil to join them, but not in fear. He does not want to see him as prey- he could have easily just redefined Gil as a foreigner due to being adopted and done as he wished. That could be chalked up to the fact that he was part of the "pack" already in a sense though. However, in my mind, honoring kinship to an extent is a form of altruism, as you don't always do it out of self-interest, but of a lesser sort as it's of the in-group. However, in accepting Gil, who was never theirs by blood, they show that they can be altruistic or kind to others. While the wolfmen could potentially become harmful or a threat to others, the years they served as head of the lands will likely temper that- to them, all of their people are likely potential packmates that just need to deepen their connection (I may be extrapolating from your point that after the family is changed, they will likely change others). Or they may see them as vassals to protect, as they had been when they were human. They may believe that humans are weaker than what they have become, but since they are their people, they will still protect them. Either or. Outsiders that seek to threaten that would be the enemy. Those that do not get in the way of that would likely be seen as neutral- not enemies, but not as close as those within the pack network. I think it depends on what they see their prey as- is it just their enemies, or just anybody? Granted, the convert first approach does leave some ambiguity here, they might justify it as doing it for one's own good, but well...it's a murky situation. If it's the latter, then yes their altruism will be limited, but if it's only the former then it can be preserved. Based on their house ethos, there is nothing that has them believing it's a "us versus the world" scenario. Only those who actively seek to war against them are their enemies. If it had been the former, Gil would have likely been treated poorly due to being an "outsider", and would ironically confirm Gil's self-doubt. Since they reject that, there does not seem to be reason to believe that they will simply treat all outsiders as enemies, and thus cruelly- unless they of course seek to harm them or those they care for. Wolves as a whole can form bonds with non-pack animals- that is essentially how dogs were invented. So the idea that they would have no ability for altruism or at the very least positive connections with those outside of their circle would be somewhat strange. Perhaps they would be more oriented toward providing for the pack first, but for it to be fully annihilated seems somewhat implausible. I think this also depends on if the spirit transforming them is truly wicked, as well as the family's ability to retain aspects of their humanity amidst the changes. You make a fair point that one can be kind to one's loved ones, but for the sake of necessity or any number of reasons cruel to others. Yet in their relations with Gil, it's clear they can accept outsiders who accept them. However, we also see that to some extent, their mental faculties right now are somewhat compromised. Between that and believing their current state is better, it explains their conversion method. It's not exactly the most ethical approach, but it makes a kind of sense. Henrich feared dying, and so to them, transforming into this new state would mean being able to live longer and be with those you care for- in that sense, giving this "gift" is only a way to help further this aim- there is of course a more self-serving inclination in this as it's about his family- but I can easily see the family rationalizing this to apply to all they wish to change. I think that due to being more animalistic, what might occur is that they might become more lethal and ruthless to those they see as the enemy or harmful to their loved ones. How they navigate this change however is key, if they simply indulge in that, they might wind up applying the same approach to inter-familial disputes, which would likely make them have to re-evaluate things. Navigating both aspects of themselves is likely something that will occur, most likely with Gil as he's not of the family himself should he be changed.

@Anon I have, of course, read the story you mentioned. While I understand the appeal of such stories and indulge in them sometimes, I often feel too bad for the protagonist that I could not finish the story. It's a paradox really, if that particular story had not been written so excellently that allowed me to relate so much to the protagonist, I would have finished it just fine. Still, the inherent eroticism of the corruption story, at lesst to me, the characters' moral decay and the need to spread that decay to others in a manner that makes them obsess with corrupting others into more like them as well. This trope can be expertly subverted, of course, but in order to preserve the eroticness does require an expertise that I simply do not possess as of now. I am very glad for your insight, it is honestly not the things I had in mind when thinking of the story, but it is amazing to see and discuss ideas beyond my own authorial intent. However, I will admit that the core kink that inspires my story is being turned "evil" (or at least, extremely hedonistic) by a intimately trusted and beloved figure of authority and turning your loved ones "evil" so you can enjoy the chaos together. The emotional intimacy is a secondary theme that usually naturally follows. Mosr of my favourite works on this site employ the tropes yo certain degrees. I am honestly surprised that the theme is not as prevalent in corruption stories. There will be things left open for interpretation in this story, of course, and I might one day attempt to write stories with the core idea being the subversion of usual corruption tropes.

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) Yeah that story was just...honestly by the end of it I just wanted to wring the neck of the person doing the transformations- the second to last chapter essentially had the victim have a mental breakdown over losing his family and the chapter after having him essentially be treated as a neighbor to demean- I really couldn't finish it. I tend to have a habit of overanalyzing what I read, and often times many transformative stories usually leave me wondering about how despite all the sensual pleasure, the emotional damage and loss implied in them would mean that for many others within these stories, these would be horror narratives. In contrast, while there is definitely a malevolent factor with those doing the transformations in your tales, there is ultimately a motivation of wanting to share joy and love with those that are being transformed. It isn't just simple malice, though definitely dubious, and there are darker elements. The ambiguity makes things feel more realistic, more tender, and more terrifying at times all at once. This ambiguity of love and madness I think is something I've been fascinated with from since I was young. Growing up, there was a story I was taught of a woman who went mad in love over a man she knew while already being in a failing marriage (scandalous I know, and what makes matters more complicated is the man she fell in love with had feelings for her too, but was also in loyalty to her husband- who had been neglecting his marriage to said woman- soap opera dynamics frankly), and how that love wound up destroying her and healing her through her life, and her pursuit of being with him nearly led her to all kinds of less than ideal actions, though it ultimately became a way for her to change herself. Some variants of the tale had the woman marry the man years later, having her regain her youth and live with him after all sorts of strife and trial. There, that woman became the tempting influence where she wanted to share her love with the man she loved and break free of her marriage which was failing. Of course, since this was a more moralistic tale, the woman winds up foiled in her plans, and has to struggle with her actions and her legitimate grievances in a society that doesn't care about them, often trying to resolve those grievances in ways that tragically only make things worse. She is at times a villain who has a point in a way, a sympathetic heroine in a bad spot, and a penitent. Yet her desire for the man- her love for her- that never is seen as an issue- if anything the tone of the story is always "well why wouldn't she fall in love with him?". Her story has been told for a thousand years, and while it's not always the one variant spoken of- many see her as just the corrupting influence, but what can I say- I like complexity with characters in stories. Similarly, Henrich and his sons single minded pursuit to be with Gil evokes memories of that tale- of the woman's drive and desires- to me at times. Of course, this story's ending will likely be something a little more ambiguous in nature. It was in all rights a sort of madness that drove that woman amidst her love, much like how the family's desire to be with Gil drives them now and their desire to spread their state of being. Another story involved a man becoming so solely focused on his love for a woman he could not be with that people called him to be possessed (he never was able to be with her)- it eventually drove him to his own death, and the woman wound up pining for him till the grave (they are of a tradition of stories of lovers who never are with each other, yet love anyway). In your story, there is something similar- the love Henrich and his sons have for each other lead them down dark paths to an almost obsessive like quality and it envelops them near entirely to a point of madness, but while there is what could be construed as malice, the intent in it's entirety isn't malice. That's what makes it both somewhat heartwarming and terrifying, and so much more impactful. The love you show between the characters becomes a drive for them to become ever more feral and in some ways unhinged as we see with how Henrich and the others begin to change, and yet it becomes a driving force that at times oddly stabilizes them from going completely off the deep end, as we see with Peter to some extent. It showcases how love can drive people mad, and yet bind them together- how it can be heartwarming as much as it is horrifying. I think for me, the moral decay here is so fascinating to analyze because as you show in your stories, many times their decay is often seen by those who have been changed as trying to help others. With the knights, William is half mad over seeking out pleasure, but a major motivation to take over the kingdom is to avenge his son (who is still alive and is going to have to deal with the fact that his "death" caused his family to spiral into insanity). Here, Gil is going to have to face the complicated fact that his family hasn't just been turned into monsters- they are still there- and that complicated balance between duty and love will be tested to it's limits for him. It's a slippery slope of intentions and executions, of if the ends justify the means, of horror and love and how they intertwine upon each other, and exploring that dynamic is fascinating. I think for me, hedonism at it's peak and it's darker state is to seek out pleasure and not care of anybody in the way- which is often the case in many transformation stories. Here though, we see hedonism wrapped around love- and what comes out of such is equal parts tender and terrifying. That I think is what I find so fascinating about your works. In keeping the emotional intimacy, the characters seem more human and more real. In that sense, your dynamic of the "evil" trusted one seeking to corrupt his loved ones to share their pleasure and joy is in it's own way from the perspective of the corrupted a kindness. It's an interesting inversion of most stories which often have transformations occurring from a position of seeking to cause malice. Yes, I do find it fascinating that the idea of spreading a corruption because a person feels it would make them feel better is not seen more. As for subversions, I do find many of the stories by naedre to be good examples of this in some cases, though that could be influenced personal readings. Regardless, wherever you go with this story, I will be intrigued by whatever path it takes.

@Anon Those tales sound really familiar....but the name still eldes me, sadly. I do wonder though, should the protagonist of that particular story follow the "usual" route and end up transformed too, how would our reactions be different? On the topic of characters spreading corruption with intimacy and "kindness" involved...there is actually one particular erotica, not on this site, that borders so perfectly between horror and tenderness, but the ending is so irrevocably dark (and not in the abuse replacing love sense) that haunts both my wet dream and nightmares alike. I think it is basically about a father and his two sons visiting a cabin by the beach and get transformed into Lovecraft-ish sharkmen -- not sure about the policy with mentioning work from other sites, though. I think that voyeurism is a part of hedonism. Seeing your loved one becomes as corrupt as you are and see them fuck others, it essentially means that you get to fuck one more person than you would be able to otherwise. This story is a prequel of sort to Knightly Duties, set about half a century in the past. While not necessary, this story will better expand on the dynamic and culture of the kingdom, especially with regards to the Knightly Orders and their patron deities. Thank you for the recommendation!

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) The two tales that I mentioned don't have so much physical transformations of the individuals in love, but rather emotional and mental ones that such love brings upon them. The first was essentially a romanticized version of a religious story that gained traction in the near east due to being seen as an allegory of how to approach the divine in a religious context- essentially, it's read as allegory in a sense (western tradition also has this story but this aspect of it never caught on due to the woman in question having much less characterization beyond being a corruptive seducing influence, which the eastern tradition does not have- there are enough details about the woman in the latter that showcase a more complex side of her that interpreters noticed and elaborated upon). The second one of the man going mad in love is a long poem from I would say...late antiquity in the near east, and is seen in similar lights. In both of them, love drives those affected by it into almost crazed states- their transformation isn't physical so much as it is mental. In a way, you could argue that since their love for their beloved completely redefined who they were, you could argue they were transformed in a sense- just not in a way you could see at first glance....or maybe you could. We see this with Henrich himself to some extent- his love for his sons and his desire to be with them and make them stronger is exactly what kicks off everything. As for that one about the man who lost his family, if he had been transformed, the rather malicious nature of the one doing the transformations really would make any happiness the the main gains in being reunited with his now warped family in a similar warped state I feel would be like a poisoned gift- sure he's happy, but....is he actually happy, or made to feel that way, and even if so, isn't it better than before at least- he is at least with his loved ones? It's a question that to some extent can be applied here as well to some degree, as you've mentioned considering the ambiguous nature of the conversion process. Yet somehow you make the process of conversion here more based in love than that, though darker elements still persist in the shadows. That story you mention of the sharkfolk, I feel curious enough to want to know it's title. It sounds like something that entwines horror and love together. Voyeurism could be seen as hedonism in a sense, and I see your analogy- those corrupted become extensions of your own pleasure just as they feel their own- it becomes a nonstop feedback loop that intensifies. If this story is a prequel to your knights one, then I do wonder what became of these folk....fifty years is not long enough for this story of wolfheim to have been completely buried. I can only hope that Gil does not become a tragic footnote in a dire tale, locked away in a book in a dusty library as a cautionary tale.

@Anonymous It's called, "It came from beneath the sea" by Nex_Canis, you can find it on Sofurry (though I think you have to be registered ro access it.) The story warrants a weird mix of response from me. On one hand, it has all the themes I like, family, masculinity, corruption, etc. However, the ending is kinda dark and ambiguous? I am not really sure if the author intends that the familial love that has been present throughout the story remains in the end after the "ascension". I would like to think that some degrees of that love exists still, albeit transformed. It is a very hot story mevertheless, and even without the erotic element, is actually one of the best non-mainstream media I have read. I would really like your take. My stories will likely be less ambiguous in this regards though. The bond, however corrupted, remains constant. I usually even go out of the way to state that outright sometimes. Well, time to brush up my history of literature knowledge! Since I have some free time now, I guess that I could do some light reading on the subject you mentioned.

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) Hmm...I just read that story, and it doesn't really seem like the author was trying to preserve familial ties. At one point the characters imply familial kinship is meaningless as they are turned. I think for me, since I come from a cultural background where spirits that are not human exist, but are not inherently evil and can in fact be good- to the point of being able to have a good afterlife- (though one does not worship them, they merely exist and their existence is recognized, though working with them is a contentious topic altogether usually found in the footnotes of things and frowned upon) and are capable of love and affection for their own kind and others, the idea of something being inhuman automatically becoming unable to foster any affection or care is an alien thought to me. Perhaps their thought process would be somewhat different, but to the point of utter elimination? I can't really see that. The fact that the wife essentially lost her sons just makes the whole thing feel like a tragedy. There is an erotic element there, yes, but it's in a Lovecraftian sense so it's amidst horror. The sense of family is there, but it's constantly chipped away at- unlike here, where familial ties are what drive forth further changes. Then again, I may be reading the story incorrectly. It's why I kind of prefer your take on the matter. Intimacy would remain even despite changes. Why would it vanish? For me, I think sometimes transformation stories underestimate how much a person can preserve of themselves (though everybody has their limits, and sometimes what those limits are can shift), and how sometimes physical pleasure may not be the only factor that can seduce people to want something, and of course the nature of these stories is to explain what happens if they can't preserve themselves in a lot of cases- which is a totally valid viewpoint to explore. Of course, physical pleasure can do much the same in seducing people to be convinced of something, but it being intertwined with love and intimacy in your stories feels more realistic and down to earth, even amidst all the supernatural elements. As for the stories I mentioned, the one of the lady in love is primarily a medieval era tale that was compiled through a combination of religious stories, associated interpretations and reinterpretations, commentaries on said stories, and mystical re-readings of the original deriving story. It's more famously known in the east as Yusuf and Zuleikha, centering on a recasting of the traditional story of the biblical Joseph (known as Yusuf in the east) and a re-defining of Potiphar's wife (who is given the name Zuleikha). From a western perspective, I can imagine this rendition of the tale would be unbelievably scandalous, and is primarily derived from persian exegesis. The long poem of the man who went mad with love is known as Layla and Majnun, and is an arab poem that dates to round the sixth century.

@Anonymous That's unfortunate. I think that there are certain hints suggesting certian ambiguities and unreliable narrator tropes, for example, the younger son making the point that his "family" has been blessed after previously stating family no longer matters. Maybe I'm just being hopeful, cause with a bit change to the ending and less bias against the mother character, this story could easily have become my favourite. I think that "love" could be construed very much as a "human" concept. Deities, spirits, or even animals other than humans share a relationship that is wholly different from that of a human that is itd own thing. In my country, there are different certain "races" believed to exist that operate in a "continent" where the concept of kinship is entirely different, where babies magically appear on tge street without parents while passerbys randomly take the responsibily of keeping the baby fed. We may try to personify it, but we cannot really underdtand due to the "eldritch" nature of such beings. Translating that to transforming eroticas, becoming "something else" might be construed as forgoing "human" love into the kind of relationship that we, as himan readers and writers, cannot ourselves fully grasp. The essiest is where lust has supplanted love or the two are invariably one and the same. Like you, I don't find the loss of human love appealing in any kind of story, even outside of erotica. It is a concept I only entertain philosophically.

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) With what you've mentioned then, it's possible that some aspect of the familial bond has persisted, but the way the story at times somewhat negates it leaves it in murky water, as you yourself have mentioned. As for the concept of "love", from my own cultural background, I feel how it is expressed may differ from being to being, but it in itself may show similarities. In some mystical traditions of the religion I was raised in, the relationship with the divine is actually personified as that of a pair of lovers, though of course not in an entirely identical manner- there is some metaphorical aspects to such an understanding. The races you mention with their somewhat alien tendencies are very similar to the spirits I was raised up believing in- having their own realms, races amongst them and tribes, and living in places far away from humans (though in my case it's literally a realm people can't see that's present alongside the physical realm, but also places like graves, abandoned areas, haunted houses, etc- though they may interact with people at times.)- and the idea that they may behave differently and understand things differently from humans. However, usually in theological understandings, these spirits are assumed to have similarities to humans in physical and emotional needs- though they may process them differently physically, mentally and emotionally at times. One thing that is often mentioned is that these spirits may not always understand that a minor action done by a human wasn't meant to harm them, but it did, so they wind up getting very angry and hurting said person because it doesn't exactly translate over. It's essentially a disconnect due to experiencing things in different ways. So some of that "eldritch" nature does persist, but is also subverted in some ways. But you make a fair point that different kinds of love exist, and what is love to a deity or a spirit may not be the same as love for humans amongst themselves at all cases. For instance, I was told a story once of how such spirits could fall in love with humans and possess them to want to be close to them- or of stories of humans who knew said spirits near all their lives and respected their space in an almost friendly like manner. Another one I heard as a child was of an exorcist being called to de-possess a woman only to be told by the spirit doing so- which spoke like a young girl- that the reason it possessed the woman it did was because they looked lonely and they didn't want them to feel sad. On the other hand, particularly frightful encounters are also told about in such stories. In erotica, I think that while becoming something else could be seen as forgoing human aspects of love to become something else by association, I don't think elimination of it (the idea of love) makes much sense. As you put it, it's not appealing. Philosophically, it doesn't make much sense to me due to my background. I can understand how it may shift and change however, but full elimination never made much sense to me.

@Anon The idea that spirits can be "nice" or "vengeful" is something I grew up hearing as well. However, living in the more urbane areas, I seldom had the chance to really experience for myself the beliefs of my people. In eroticas, while I do not "like" the concept, I kinda understand the appeal. In an extreme example, a human transformed into an alien drone whose brain is permanently altered such that romantic entanglement is not possible. Again, not really my jam, but it is understandable that the elimination of live is reasonable within the story's context.

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) Practically speaking, in the case of the drone, it does make sense. No mental capability, no real capacity for emotion. However, I always find it odd how nobody wonders about after. I mean....what happens if the person who did all this winds up dead or arrested? They cant be around forever. Then what happens to the drone? Could it be reprogrammed to have more individuality if we have a code basis, and less restrictions, but still be beholden to a more submissive nature and to a master? What if somebody finds it and realistically freaks out. Perhaps somebody trying to get them back to normal winds up becoming their master by sheer accident due to a programming classification the drone makes since its old master is gone and now the drone has to figure out how to please its master....except everything it was programmed to do is not doing that so now it had no idea what to do- even staying quiet and still like an object isnt helping unlike its old master. What it's new master wants is in violation of its old masters commands, yet it has to follow them, but it can't even do that right. The drone would probably wind up frustrated- or whatever it can express as being so. The new accidental master now has to figure out how to get the drone back to normal while also possibly accepting some drone aspects might remain- essentially, they'll have to figure out how to be a master- because thats literally the only method of relation the drone can even process at this point- while also trying to retain the drones personhood. I dunno, but the whole drone thing can definetly be explored more. There's a story that kind of did that, with the drone wanting to submit but even while doing so reaffirming it's/his personhood: https://www.gayspiralstories.com/story/show/10009330 On the other hand, in the case of an alien drone yeah chances are that would end as it usually does. Unless the alien winds up having a change of heart, it'll remain essentially deceased mentally.

@Anon Those sre all interesting ideas! This is another wonderful recommendation! The problem with the subversion of "transformative" eroticas, I think, is the tendency for the subversion to take away from the erotic aspects that are the premise of these tropes. You have to be familair with the genres enough to make the subversion equally as hot, I think. Drone stories, I belive, partly rely on people's desire of being able to just relax and free themselves from the hardship of making decisions that plagues everyday life. A conscious drone would thrust him back into confronting the hardshio he is meant to escape from, and the usual eroticism of drone stories will no longer apply. The author will have to come up with other stuff to replace it. We fortunately have many great authord here, though.

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) Yes, subversions would be difficult, especially with topics like these. Familiarity is key. What you mention about drone stories being a way for the reader to imagine themselves being able to let go makes a lot of sense. For me, I'm the kind of person who would find having any ability of rationality taken in perpetuity terrifying, but a slight break here and there? I could see the theoretical appeal. Then again, the whole point of the drone genre is permanent cessation of control because that maximizes the fantasy of being able to let go. So yes, a subversion in that sense would be difficult because it would mean impeding that principle. However, I think that when one submits, one can be in a state of trust just as much as fear. Drone stories often lean more towards the latter (somebody gets kidnapped, subject to experiments, infected by a virus, aliens etc.), which then trails into sensuality as the soon to be drone winds up exposed to a cacophony of physical and mental pleasures in it's conversion, which makes them succumb. Even that forced aspect of it potentially reveals another aspect of eroticism depending on the interpretation- it could be that you don't have to worry about choosing when to submit and let go and relax, it can be done for you. On the other hand, such an action would also be terrifying in a more down to earth analysis. So the question then becomes- could somebody create a story where somebody agrees to become a drone to somebody they trust and care for- and once they do become one, echoes of who they were still persist- perhaps the individual to become a drone in question was doomed to die of sickness, and so they chose this to be able to live on, and though their new state means some changes, it's better than nothing- with the master in question wrestling with the fact that he loves his drone in his own way, but also kind of misses what came before- but not enough to give up the present and then feeling guilty over it- feeling like he at times wishes he could be with somebody who is literally in front of them. Meanwhile the drone is just confused at times over what it's master wants, but still wants to be able to let go, but it knows despite it's programming that it's master is hiding secrets that pertain to it. It would be a difficult story to write, but it would be a fascinating possibility to explore, at least in my eyes. As for a drone being conscious, technically any drone would need to be able to have some rational thought going on to be able to do anything- even if completely hazed over via reprogramming or mind control or magic- though in that case I guess they still aren't concious in the sense of not being themselves. I think for a drone that winds up becoming concious, the real struggle there would be perhaps loving the feeling of being able to let go but feeling disgust of being forced to let go- kind of like the drone in the story which I mentioned in my previous comment. That drone loved submission and letting go, but as soon as he realized what this specific type of submission he was considering was going to entail (in this case being turned into a literal puppet with no care being given to them and abuse of his fellow drones), they backed out of that very quickly. For me, the rubber and capes series on this site, as well as naedre's copy and paste series sort of explore these factors. While many of the characters in the former are drones- they often don't show themselves as one at first- though you see that slowly change. Though in some ways, the latter story is less drones and more reprogramming, though there is definitely a kind of master/servant dynamic going on. I think with drones, if one was to subvert it hypothetically- the question that would have to be explored is how a drone can continue to sate it's desire to be able to let go, without solely being made just that. Can somebody be a drone and also a person? Does submission mean permanent cessation of any ability to be yourself? Or are such states of being irreconcilable? Realistically, a drone without it's master would find itself struggling very quickly- and while the fantasy is to have the ability to let go- which makes perfect sense contextually- the struggle of a drone seeking that out while also possibly struggling with the fact that it actually likes some aspects of autonomy once it stops feeling terrifying (yet also wants to continue being submissive, particularly if it never really had a master or was treated poorly and it had the capability to realize that- drone they may be, but I think even they would not exactly be excited to deal with long term interactions that harmed their physical health- as that would compromise their ability for sexual pleasure) would be a fascinating thing to explore. I might just be thinking of the concept beyond an erotic sense however. These are mostly just my rambles however. Going back to your story, I do look forward to how the folk of wolfheim wind up changing in the chapters to come. I do wonder however, if this is a prequel to the knights story, does that mean they might still be around in that? I mean...they might not be entirely human anymore, so extended lifespans are on the table potentially. However, this doesn't look like demonic possession, but something else. As I mentioned prior in our discussion, love is the main motivation for the family's desire to transform Gil- it helps them avoid the separation they were facing, with Henrichs' death and Gil going to become a knight in the east. The question becomes does Gil understand that at first, or does he truly believe his family is gone, which could fuel some resistance before things potentially shift? After all, if he's a knight, he likely knows about demons and possession- so he might believe his family is lost to him but not have the heart to kill them due to being too close to the situation, which would essentially turn into a debacle of him treating his brothers and father as if they were dead, while they speak to him in frustration as to why he does this, not understanding why he does not join them- it would be akin to the disconnect I mentioned with the spirits and the humans at times. In particular, Gil may fear all his fears of being lesser than his family are coming true, and may believe himself to be weak, to be akin to prey in the context of the family- something I think would completely horrify Peter and the others (they'd probably plot retribution against anybody they felt was responsible for Gil thinking this considering their altered states). It would feel like all the progress they had made in Gil's return home was coming undone at the seams to them, and that they were losing a pack member.

@Anon I do feel kinda guilty, talking about the idea before the relevant chapter is actually out. Of course, you have not seen much of the wolf-men yet, and the genuine evaluation is not really possble, but here are my ideas pertaining wolf-men vs demons: While demonic corruption is based on the liberation from the shackles of duties (ie abandoning the romantic ideas of chivalry prevalent in the East), the transformation into wolfmen is meant to be a reversion to the primal state of being (ie doubling down on the Western's unadultered tradition of rampant beastial masculinity and manhood). While the demons recognize the corruption as perversion and revel in it, the wolfmen see their transformed state as what MEN are meant to be take manly pride in their new allegiance. The demons are cunning and covert and enjoy finding new perverted ways to corrupt others, the wolfmen see no need for subtlety as it contravenes the idea of what manly apex predators like them ought to do, and the corruption will be carried out in almost ritualistic manner. Diegetically, people of the Kingdom are aware of demons and the broader terms of "dark magic" referring to a wide category of change-induced power. Most knights like Gil who have combatted actual demons, have understood from experience that killing and pillaging is the usual modus-operandi, whiel corrupting men into demons outright is much rarer and specific only to certain types of demons (ie the type that Gregory has been turned into), and he will likely be able to identify straightaway that what his family is turning into does not match that. How this knowledge will affect his perception of the situation at hand is another matter. I think that I will implement a bit more backstory to Gil to explain why he is the way he is in the next chapter too. I have grown attached to this setting (which has lived rent-free in my head for a very long time now) and will likely be featured in many other series. Each series is its own thing and won't requite readers to have read every work, but a reference in the worldbuilding will probably be there.

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) I see...so in this case, the transformations here in the west aren't so much about diverting from tradition as per the demonic outbreaks of the east, but actually intensifying it's embracing. So instead of the demons being proud of deviating from tradition, the wolfmen see themselves as bastions of it. In that case, it would make sense that Gil would start to realize that something is off from what he has learnt. On the other hand, the intensification of sexual desire is something common with the eastern outbreaks, and that I think might trigger in Gil to some extent a panic response to get away from them. He was already scared when Peter was in the middle of transforming because it might remind him to some extent of a demonic transformation, but he might start realizing something is different about this, as you've mentioned. I do look forward to what you write in the future for this universe. I think interestingly, while wolves are traditionally predators who hunt down prey, they can also do ambushes, but that might contravene with western warrior culture. Or maybe not. Ambushes are a part of war- but maybe they don't do them much and frown on them unless necessary and prefer head on combat.

@Anon I forgot to mention this in my earlier comment, but I am fascinated by the idea of a ritualistic like transformation. It sounds almost devotional if it's in the context of honoring the culture and faith of the west, in the vein of a prayer

@[Anon](/user/show/10049352) Guys, I'm fascinated by that amazingly long thread and discussion, but I feel this is actually overwhelming the comment system, as it forces people to scroll an incredibly long way down (on the "comments" tab on the main page) to get to see anything else. It's not my place to ask you anything, but I think you'd be way better of moving this discussion to a forum thread, don't you think?

@[Corin](/user/show/125990) Of course, sorry!

@[Corin](/user/show/125990) My deepest apologies. I'll be mindful to make sure to avoid comment overflow.

@[Zander](/user/show/10015044) The Ex-girlfriend will make an appearance again as Callum’s story continues.

@[DaymionMC](/user/show/10033419) Thank you so much. You made me reread my own story, which I hardly ever do. It has been so long that it really affected myself and I had a hot wank on my own story. Which is rare :) But yeah, I am motivated to write more. And I want to conclude at least some of my older stories. So keep kicking me in my ass (but I prefer slapping :) )!