@[Pwrliftermscl](/user/show/941605) glad you liked it! with the serum he’s permanently jacked/stupified! he’s also the first convert/employee of the gym, apart from the owner, i should have specified this. if i add another part, i’ll have Connor become the next recruiter, taking the young unsuspecting jocks that wander off alone into the gym, turning them into dumb himbo’s, like himself.

@[JSN](/user/show/10029968) Thank you. To be honest, looking back it seems that in many cases, ones desires dominating over the appearance of the one that converted him seems to occur- such as with covetous who despite being converted by most of Collins demonized family at the time shows characteristics related to bathing and soldiers and looks more humanoid than the others, nothing like the others, while in other cases like those converted by another demon- like garret- they look more like those that converted them (which I believe was either Gregory or william...both of whom share the same large muscular build and hot-headed personality.) I remember a comment I think in the last chapter from @Pcm that those converted by forlorn will retain his physical attractiveness and how he looks to some degree (as per his photo in the last chapter of his demon form)- as he's meant to he the most encompassing demon in luring people to be seduced and converted. Forlorn also retains his healer persona even if altered by demonic desire (he outright confesses in this chapter that he sees demonization as a kindness and means of liberation in light of how eastern cultural norms and self sacrifice harmed him in his final discussion with eddie before he becomes callous- though i imagine albert will have a very different view on that), so that kind nature Alfred possesses would likely remain, even if initially altered by the demon transformation before seeing more changes as Albert goes on his journey, though I'd imagine always retaining his kindness- which is a crucial part of him. In light of that, I'd see Albert at the end of his journey looking like a kinder forlorn to some degree in appearence, and far less sinister in his beliefs and behaviors. I'd imagine him as akin to somebody like tamayo or yushiro in the manga demon slayer, or the non villainous ghouls of tokyo ghoul in personality- clearly not human in body, but not inhuman (lack of virtue) in deed. Though since I come from a culture which holds belief in spiritual beings that may be good or evil (the genies/jinns)- Albert's journey would be similar to one of those creatures introspecting and changing themselves and being capable of doing so (an established principle in theological understandings of said culture in relation to religion), and so it wouldn't be odd that albert as a "demon" is changing in his mentality and deeds. A major part of Albert's journey I suspect is accepting what he is now, coming to terms with the past, forgiving himself, and despite being a demon- figuring out how to be more than what he was, while not trying to deny what he is to the point of self harm (self repression I feel is a major reason why the east fell apart so quickly in the first place to the demons- so Albert replicating that in his healing wouldn't seem logical- he might do it while initially traumatized and just starting to work through things- but not later- though I suspect he will relearn restraint to a degree.

@Anon You make a good point about Forlorn's charms was inherited by Albert, and with his kind behaviour, his method of transforming is through showing kindness to the victims and persuade them to join the horde. His kindness even make him lovable as a demon, the demon princes included. Albert’s other employers, you will see them in his flashback. Albert is from somewhere far from East, maybe near the West, I think. There's people living in the South, even if it's not an ideal place to live. And with Albert, things will likely change for South.

@[JSN](/user/show/10029968) If Albert is from the border regions near the west that would also imply some potebrially interesting run ins with beastfolk. Wolfheim was running kidnapping rings (though they did take in the destitute to give them a home so its complicated, though theres the whole eerie aspect of the primal beast) in that region to bring in new people to convert. Or do you mean that his homeland being far from the east means that the western regions are to the east of his homeland? Albert converting people with kindness is a very interesting method but on brand for him. Would that mean like helping refugees with their fears and traumas or physically assisting them, or being a helpful presence to convince them, alongside use of intimacy in a kindly way, thereby shoeing that the demons aren't monstrous? If so that is a very cunning PR campaign there to kind of sidestep the more dubious concerns about making more demons, though Albert is definetly entirely sincere about his kindness. The demon princes liking him is interesting- do they like him for his results or his methods- after all, in this chapter alone one of forlorn family members say human feelings do not matter- only the horde. So I can see maybe not at first, but after Albert loses his family some major friction could occur between them. Or perhaps maybe the opossite will happen because they all like him and are distressed over his distress. Alternatively, they may see his way of conversion as less messy and a better way to integrate any remaining survivors that didnt escape. Though considering most refugees and survivors would likely be very scared of demons- so he must really be kind and empathetic. I wonder who Albert's previous employers were...will they be important in the south, or just to establish Alberts character and past? I'd also argue that in this chapter, it's implied Albert's demon form is very beautiful, and also muscular. I'd imagine he looks a bit like forlorn but also not, but with his kindness aspect he's probably akin to the himbo archetype but not dumb. Just very kind, muscular and good looking, as well as able to sympathize and help people with their fears and troubles. I'm trying to think how that could work as a description to feed to perchance ai, which was used to make the demon portraits in this chapter and earlier.

@Anon It's mostly just to establish Albert's past and his behaviour, honestly. As for the previous question, it took some time for them to like Albert, his caring nature and understanding earns the demon princes approval, even the normal demons likes him for who he is.

@Anon In your opinion, what is the general climate of the south? Is it a desert region or something else? The mentions of it being empty lead me to think something akin to deserts and arid areas, so people living there would likely be nomadic and congregate near an oasis, though likely avoiding the sea and estuaries, and likely staying away from any rivers that connect to the sea, unless they have to do so. Are the people there currently economically struggling? And what is the culture of the place? I fear I may have asked these questions beforeN in which case I apologize, but the South just fascinates me as to what it could be. How will they see Albert?

@[JSN](/user/show/10029968) In light of this, I sense that Albert's method of sexual activity is generally very much pleasure oriented for both parties. So I'd imagine him akin to a pleasure dom in a way and being a figure somebody can confide in and trust, but also having the increased sex drive all demons have. Would that be a good way to understand how his personality and demonic nature intersect and show themselves in how he engages in sex?

@Anon I hope so, it's my first time writing a story after all.

@Anon As for the climate, I haven't come up with one yet, but it's probably a place where water is regular occurrence to them. If they see Albert, maybe they would have give up from that point, it shows how badly their town have been, and they want to release their fears.

@[JSN](/user/show/10029968) So something perhaps more akin to a swampy area? Or an area with lots of rivers and lakes and trees? The ideas you've been discussing here have been fascinating overall and with how much depth youve given albert i think youll be able to write a really good story for him. I think what's interesting is that you seem to have Albert be happy in the east after becoming a demon and rising in prominence with his slightly unconventional means of conversion, lose his family and have an existential crusis, and then go south and then have a journey there and heal. With him kind of serving as the demons PR representative (I'd imagine forlorn is like this too), I wonder what the demon princes reaction to all of this would be when he decides to go south? Something tells me they're going to go after him... As for Albert's sexual dynamics (i fear i may have repeated myself on this topic), would it be accurate to say he's a pleasure dom, focused on making his partners feel safe and pleasured? Most demons seem to take on a dominant role in intimacy. As for the southern towns, I'd imagine they might be dealing with poverty and abyssal gaze attacks. So if they see Albert in his demonic form they may very well give up- good for them that Albert is there- any other demon would have taken advantage of that very fast.

@[JSN](/user/show/10029968) Oh that really makes it tragic then. Seeing his last moments being ganged on by his employers who seemed kindly (like the old man in the beginning of this chapter) and then having Collin turn him by using his family loyalty and love for them against him- I suspect that Albert probably thought if he became a demon he'd be with them forever. If Albert gets so caught up in lust and not sending money...him not sending it might mean less treatment for his family, meaning they might over exert himself and fall gravely ill. If that winds up happening, it won't just be the trauma that the demon invasion cause their deaths- it would be that he got so caught up in lust he caused their deaths by not doing his duty to his family to keep them safe by sending them money for treatment. That would...that would completely destroy him I fear. No wonder he'd wind up in the south....he'd probably want to run away from...everything frankly. Something tells me Albert will be having the time of his life only to have a horrifying realization that his family paid the price- and its not like he can go back. After all, the demons have him now, and if he did go back..it's not like it will bring them back. Yet it's not his fault either. He tried to resist but Collin is well...forlorn isn't dangerous for nothing. Trying to heal from all of that would be...oh that's going to be a lot.

@[JSN](/user/show/10029968) Not to mention...will anything even be able to pass from the east out once the demons take over? Every country will likely shut its borders, meaning Albert won't be able to send any more money. Even if he does wind up remembering it will be too late. And with that having happened...there's a possibility his family might think he abandoned him or died....and seeing him as a demon might well believe he truly has died and is but a monster. This would devastate him. It seems to me that Albert is going to go through a journey similar to that of omori- who in his video game struggled to process his guilt and repressed memories in mental mindscapes, as well as the struggles of real life and trying to reconnect with people you have not spoken with, all while realizing he had committed a horrible crime against family...and one that can't be undone. Will Albert ever be able to see his family again, or has the demon invasion taken that from him? Considering the angle of the demon incasion being there reason for death of loved ones....something tells me that is exactly what will happen. Goodness just thinking about it makes me happy Albert will be able to heal...but boy is he going to be emotionally broken for a while if my suspicions are true. And something tells me he's going to come to hate forlorn because thanks to him I suspect he's not going to remember what he should be doing until too late. By the way, what do you envision Albert looking like, unless his description is in this chapter? And what about Albert's other employers, will we see them? And if Albert will change the fate of the south- does that mean some people are living there? I mean...it wouldn't be impactful if he changed the fate of a place with nobody in it. Is Albert from the north, far west or far south? I'm assuming he must be from the continent as sea travel is not a thing due to the abyssal gaze. Is Albert's affect on the south hopefully going to be positive? You did mention a happy ending after all. Perhaps it will become a refuge from the demons...it would be ironic, but a good kind of irony.

@Anon To be honest, with how I come up with his family's death, I think you're right. Albert will probably break at that point.

@[JSN](/user/show/10029968) Albert in my vision look like a very caring and nice person, an innocent look.

@[JSN](/user/show/10029968) Something tells me there's two possibilities that are going to happen... his family winds up dying far away from him and he doesn't realize until years later, or they seek out to find him and the demons find them first and that goes horribly wrong. However, you aren't just writing a story where Albert winds up destroyed by grief, there's also clearly a healing element to this. And while I suspect Albert will be alone for some time, he won't be forever. The question is who will he meet in the south? I'm assuming he's going to be running from his past, his guilt and his grief and seeing the south as being completely empty just runs off over there (it's not like going to the north or west are exactly options here- the beastfolk, arboreal adherents, and the eastern diaspora in either country will likely have a shoot on sight policy for demons) only to get roped into something regarding the abyssal gaze. I strongly also suspect that while his desire for pleasure will remain, his feelings towards other demons (especially forlorn and his family) are going to be very complicated at best and outright hateful probably, including self-hatred until he manages to heal and mentally process everything (though I suspect even then he will detest Forlorn (especially him as forlorn's desire for liberation via demonhood never was fulfilled with Albert...his life was ruined instead), and most other demons). Something tells me he's going to despise Callous and Forlorn most of all- because Forlorn was a healer like his family was and well...look what happened- Callous on the other hand just has a horrible attitude in general- and I suspect he will see demonhood as one big joke- so much for it bringing his loved ones to him and being in pleasure forever- all it did was get them murdered. All he has left to show for it are good looks and likely greater strength and a much bigger body frame (so more muscular and looking like forlorn), but also horrific amounts of trauma and guilt, and an insatiable sex drive that will likely traumatize him further as he won't want to feel good but his body literally cannot help itself because he's a demon now while his mind is a self-hating, traumatized mess. Considering the demons seem to have sex like one would have food or water- I can imagine him having sex while literally having a mental breakdown over grief and barely keeping it together. Or trying to use it as a coping mechanism unhealthily to distract himself until he gets better and processes what happened to him. I think that the fact that forlorn made him means he'll look a bit like him as a demon which would be it's own level of horror- imagine seeing the guy who contributed to messing up your life every time you look at yourself (though seeing forlorn's picture in two chapters ago he would look very handsome making it an identity crisis similar to what eddie faced a while back while in wolfheim). It'd be pretty funny to see Forlorn realize he made a mistake and wound up creating a situation like what happened with him- took somebody's family away indirectly and now they've gone maverick. I strongly suspect that is what's going to happen. Forlorn and his family will be partying in the east and then suddenly all sorts of crazy developments start happening down south. I think what's ironic is that Forlorn's motivations make sense (seeing demonhood as liberation), but him failing to actualize this with Albert (and indirectly contributing to such or even potentially more directly due to being one of the main enforcers for the demon invasion) is probably going to cause him so many problems- all deserved to be honest. Obviously, him breaking is only half of his story- the other half is him rebuilding his life and finding healing. So the question then becomes- how does that happen? Does he try to prevent what happened to him from happening to others? Will he try to disguise himself to repress his demon self? Does he try to help people in the south in a means to atone? Or does he wind up having to face his demons when facing against the abyssal gaze? Have a random epiphany in the wilderness? Will he wind up traumatized by his own needs for pleasure that possibly contributed to making everything worse either by him getting distracted and not sending money leading to his family falling mortally ill or by it reminding him that he's a demon and like those that got his family killed- which would probably be hugely traumatic form multiple angles and something he'll need to work through. Basically, Albert is about to descend into a literal circus of grief that he'll need to fight through. He will heal in the long run and become better- but I suspect that will be a very long road. And the fate of the south is tied to that as well.> Out of curiosity, what is the culture like where Albert is from? Is it more asiatic in origin, as it seems most of the countries we've seen have a very european feel- or is it perhaps more eastern european to the more germanic and western european feel of the countries we've seen. And more importantly- does the south have any people living in it, and what is it's culture, and what are they struggling with right now? The abyssal gaze is a given of course, but is there anything else?

@[JSN](/user/show/10029968) So somebody with a warm demeanor and kind. Since he is a demon, I'm assuming he's muscular, but probably lithe as Forlorn is, but without that sinister smirk from two chapters ago in his photo- if he does smile I'd imagine it to be kind without darkness- he's probably going to be looking traumatized for a while though. Red skin and horns I'd imagine are a given, as well as black hair, as most demons are. Most demons tend to reflect in their outer appearance their inner desires- how would this affect Albert's demon appearance? He will look like forlorn- being his spawn- but I can imagine slight alterations.

@Anon I just realized I mistyped. Forlorn's image is in the previous chapter. Anyway, I'll be stopping here so this thread doesn't get too long.

@Anon That is a rather hard question to answer, as I think most of the demon are the same. But yeah, let's stop here for now.

@[JSN](/user/show/10029968) @[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) I could be wrong with this, and you'd probably need to consult @Pcm on this, but I think I vaguely remember demons that were made by converting a human via another demon tended to reflect their own desires in their appearence as well as the appearance of those that converted them. So those converged by William and Gregory would look like them with some differences based on their own desires (athletic muscular hotheads), those by frederick akin to slobs but less so etc as other traits may show up. Hence my assumption those converted by forlorn will resemble him in some ways and not in others. Of course I could be completely wrong about all of this. @Pcm would know more about this than I. But it seems amongst the demons in this series, while their desires are mostly uniform (experience pleasure and convert others to demons), their appearneces vary. Albert is going to vary in that like most demons but and also in his mental state- which would be the real divergence for him compared to other demons. Of course, this is your story and you should feel free to do as you please, disregarding my musings. I may well be overthinking this and coming to false conclusions and could very well be incorrect. Additionally, since this story is yet to come, I'd assume how Albert looks may Flux as time goes on. You did mention he may start out as a demon but become something "more". More in the sense of power, mentality or appearance?

@[JSN](/user/show/10029968) Based on what you've mentioned about this other apprentice, the necromancer king seems to be more related to the fiercer side of the dusk, rather than Collin or Eddie who served in light of its more compassionate aspects akin to the dawn. But you've said the necromancer king also had another side to him. Death as a whole in tradition is often seen as harsh, but not inherently cruel- with some mythologies showing psychopomps receiving souls of the virtuous gently and greeting them kindly, while treating wicked souls with terror and horror, an example being the muslim depictions of the angel of death- izrael- doing such. It's possible this apprentice strikes a balance between both aspects, making them not as kind as say Collin or Eddie were, but not as harsh as the grandmaster became. But I'm guessing here. This apprentice will he around in a time of mass instability and swift changes. Eastern diasporas to the north and west will likely emerge, significantly changing the social, cultural and religious demographics and traditions and likely causing political changes as well, with an Eastern diaspora identity likely forming, and a significant shift in how the western beastfolk see the primal beast will likely also ensue- as the primal beast and blindly following them has left them at a loss of how to deal with the demons- making them likely more like the northern beastfolk as they respond to the demon threat- not simply blindly following the primal beast and tempering themselves. Albert may yet wind up doing much the same in his journeys in the south, as he comes to terms with his grief while dealing with the abyssal gaze. I can imagine some easterners fleeing south but avoiding the coast if they are near the east-soith border, either to stay there as nobody will go there, or trekking from there to the west. It seems to me that each apprentice like figure has played a major role in major shifts. Gil was an apprentice of the grandmaster who ushered in the age of the western beastfolk, collin and Eddie have aided in ushering in the demons of the east, Albert is likely going to have some kind of subordinate relashionship to collin/forlorn and do something significant in the south....and based on this pattern- how each apprentice changed the fate of a region...my guess is that this apprentice is going to change things in the north.

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) While the portion of the stories about this new apprentice of the necromancer King is more @JSN's work than yours, I do want to inquire if any of my guesses here may have hit the mark for future chapters in how the various nations will react to the demons gaining power, mostly out of curiosity. I really hope Jason doesn't wind up getting found by eddie...

@Anon With Eddie becoming Callous, the idea is that he has become uncaringly cruel to others suffering, as demonstarted by his laughing over the doom of the world. He will continue to laugh as orhers are plunged into the same depth of depravity he has been plunged into. The South is a decrepit region especially because it borders the sea. As intercontinental trade cannot occur due to the Abyssal Gaze, the region cannot prosper. I would like to emphasize a bit that the Sacred Dusk is not the God of Death, but Undeath. What is the implication of that? The next chapter will explore it a bit, I think. The Sacred Dusk just has a string of bad luck being betrayed by everyone. The apprentices betraying theie master and bring abou a change is more of the Sacred Dusk thing. I of course wont be able to say what albert role is, but Im just as ezcited as you to see it!

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) Eddie as callous I think shows how Eddie is so tired about feeling his pain and others that he doesn't want to think about it anymore. Not to mention demonhood feels good...so why bother thinking about it. Much like the others, it's a dangerous overcorrection to what his emotional problems were. Something tells me if the doom came right at him Eddie would be singing a very different tune though as callous. And by that I mean completely freaking out. Or not realizing what it is until it hits him. There's a religious story I heard as a child of a town that was was set to be ruined seeing heavy clouds and celebrating because they thought it was rain...it wound up being a storm that tore apart their buildings and threw the people about like torn out trees. Something tells me much like that, the demons are about to run into something that will upend them. Even if they take the whole of the east....at one point or another they will stumble. I suspect Albert may be the key in all of this. If the south cannot do maritime trade, what about trade by land? Or is it just a resource deficient area so nobody stays there? Or has the abyssal gaze made the land somewhat different to deter settlers? If there's an insmouth vibe to the place that is possible. Either way I assume some eastern refugees will wind up there. As for undeath...that is definetly a more frightening thing. Is the soul inside an undead body or not? Would the dusk winning usher in a zombie apocalypse? If he falls to the demons (hopefully not) how would his powers even be eroticism? Even if he's tempted, most of his principles are opossed to the demons- unless of course some mental rewiring happens. The sacred dusk seems to have almost kalevela and turin turambar levels of luck in that they constantly get screwed over. And the apprentices betraying the dusk is a him thing....interesting. Albert will definetly be playing a major role- if he winds up intersecting over the death of his loved ones and breaking away from the demonic orthodoxy he may well become a kind of anti-collin of sorts or possibly an anti-eddie in that while eddie stopped caring about things, albert is going to wind up caring about things due to his journey...I'm assuming this because there is a happy ending involved in his story, but that is for the future. I really hope Jason never sees callous...to see Eddie as...that after meeting in wolfheim would be...traumatizing. As eerie as the wolves were at least they aren't completely callous. As eerie as gils sons got in that chapter...at least they weren't really aware why not becoming a beast was a bad thing and have the cultural context of eastern society having major problems, and hans seems to have some sense and more introspection on matters having lived uo north. Callous and the other demons on the other hand are just...significantly worse by any other metric once one considers implications, even though they make sense as being a severe overcorrection regarding Eastern cultural issues but just go right into being significantly worse once one looks past the eroticism (which is very convincing to be fair, showing just how hard resistance would be if one did not escape- making me once again think of sauron parallels in how he used his fair form to get people to do his bidding and led them to be corrupted or ruined).

@[TUMBRELLA08](/user/show/10046127) Thank you!

@[Jerry](/user/show/924759) 😊

@[bas_w123](/user/show/10020618) Glad u liked it!