@[versmetropig](/user/show/924209) It's still transformation based.

@[Sss](/user/show/10004965) It's straight, not gay

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) I suposse my arguement is that Eddie's foster father didn't see him as a person. Forlorn in a way doesn't either...he kind of does and does care for him in a way which is very different as he didnt want to manipulate him too much- but his belief in demonhood being liberation means that to be with Eddie he literally induced death of identity....which said foster father tried to do via physical violence. The object of loyalty has changed but the doom of a death remains. Eddie's alive sure and happy...but is that even still him in his entirety? I mean...forlorn was born with Eddie literally in a panic and terrified. But I also see forlorn seeing Eddie in such a miserable state and seeing his actions as needed to save him. Forlorn retaining his dream for an orphanage makes sense. Leon doing that as well is interesting- there's a terror in how he weaponized the psychological impacts of battle on soldiers to get them to shift to being feral- theres uncomfortable analogies to how war can turn people to doing terrible things out of fear and the need to win- but i think he sees any short lived terror to be a small price to pay for saving humanity from mortalith and pain- they likely see it as akin to a slightly painful shot. To Leon and Collin, the short term terror is a willing cost to truly liberate humanity. However, that's still pretty terrifying. Albert's story would be interesting to see. I suspect the other demons do have goals of their own, but more subsumed under the whole corrupt and have sex prerogative. Garrets wanted to be with his brother again, though that falls under the family seeking directive. The dusk constantly getting betrayed I feel either implies there's some shady things he's done in each reincarnation or he's just very unlucky. With him remaining his identity he may be able to do something though. I'd assume his powers are back. Clays brother...was that the guy we saw transformed in Leon's chapter? Yikes talk about a nightmare.... As for callous....something about his name leaves me uneasy. Callous meaning don't care as there's no hope? The only thing I can see the dusk doing is starting a zombie apocalypse at this rate after getting people to safety that are uninfected. We know he had promised punishment on the west as well from the other series. He's likely infuriated his brothers sacrifice was for nothing. And unlike the others...they likely won't be able to seduce or corrupt him. Maybe he'll be the key to stopping the demons from spilling out of the east. Even forlorn dream for an orphanage now has an eerie component to it. Things may seem happy on the surface, but horror abounds underneath. For every happy reunification of the demons, there are humans seeing their loved ones lost to them and fleeing in terror. At the same time though, the order the dusk built was based on severe inequalities and self repression. It was likely going to torpedo itself eventually anyway. And I suspect that he hadn't really changed much in his methods either. The story is a tragedy, but as horrible as the demons are- they make a twisted kind of sense. Which makes them even more horrifying in a way. I'm reminded a bit of sauron here- who deceived not with lies, but usually truths. If everyone winds up corrupted that would actually be terrifying yet a likely possibility if the escapees get ambushed. At least there's the north and west who will survive hopefully. I think that while demons are mostly adhering to pleasure and conversion as motivations- I think each demon does have its own goals subsumed into that. I may be repeating myself here though. How on earth would the grandmaster wind up corrupted though? It's not like the demons have anything they could offer- they're not going to offer his brother back as he's dead after all.

@[Anon](/user/show/10049352) My story is inspired by a theory which one of you provided: What happen when a demon to feel despair about his family's death?

@[Anon](/user/show/10049352) It depends on who you thibk 'Eddie' is. I mean, people change their beliefs and grow all the time. Abandoning an idea does not make your younger self dead, does it? Again, I totally get your perspective The three Princes have these as their niches. Covetous is skillful in manipulating soldiers and warrior-type. Putridus specialty is manipulating the nobles, people in position of power, or greedy and ambitious power. Abandon manipulates the lower class, despondent and destitute people, and his skill is inducing bloodlust. (It was a corruption of what human Grefory would do, saving innocent and helpless people" Clay is Cody's brorher. Cody was the guy the demons captured for Collin to corrupt in the dungeon. Cody became the large gigantic demon tearing down the wall. Who says the Dusk cannot be corupted? Wouldnt it be funny if the series end with everyone corrupted? The Grandmaster, Clay, the King and his sons, even Lys. They could be one big happy family / group.

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) Oh I get your perspective as well. People can change and be completely different from what what they were. Repentence in theological terms often entails such transformation. Go into the abrhaamic traditions and there's ninevah being saved in the time of jonah- and let's just say ninevah in those days would have probably won war crime bingo before they decided to change their ways and become better people. However, equally real is a person becoming worse. The demons seem to zigzag more towards this in many ways. Here I see echoes of Delilah and the many figures in history seduced by their desires without restraint which ultimately ruined them. In some ways Collin in still himself and defined by what Collin wanted. But with severe changes in how he percieves pleasure and how to spread it, there's a more sinister element there. Each of the princes too have their horrors. Covetous using battle lust to possess soldiers into commiting horrors, putridus using negative attributes in rulers to further his own goals, abandon in causing people to lose themselves to bloodlust. They are twisted properties of what they once wanted. At the same time, covetous would see this as necessary for liberation, abandon might see this as a way to liberate the lower classes, and putridus a means to put in his eyes unjust rulers in their place. There's a dissonance there in some ways and not in others. And yup talk about an ouch with Cody there... Okay...in hindsight that could make sense but what could the demons even tempt the dusk with? Also I feel that would have grave cosmological consequences for anybody not a demon. Them all being converted is a possibility, but the dusk seems almost impervious- what desire can he be tempted with that the demons can give? They are fundamentally opossed to each other in principles and ideals.

@[JSN](/user/show/10029968) Oh that is something I am very intrigued to see. Seeing somebody explore that would be fascinating. Albert in this case would likely remain a demon- but would he truly be loyal to the demons as forlorns promise turned to be a lie? I wonder how a sincere happy ending would work in such a case. Perhaps Albert introspects on himself, doesn't like what he finds and changes. It would be intriguing to see such a deep view on demon psychology and its ability to change.

@[Anon](/user/show/10049352) Look forward to it! I promised, everyone has an happy ending here.

@[Anon](/user/show/10049352) Well, the demons mostly just like sex. Covetous likes the feeling of soldiers letting go of their discipline and become mindless looters who still obey him and only him (and maybe his family) Abandon likes eeing people filled with bloodlust and begin fucking rheir loved ones, maybe he even likes joining in the orgy that would occur after. Putridus would arguably turn the ruling class into even more depraved version of themselves by granting them even more pleasure. With the dusk, the lure would be that demons wont betray each other and once he is a family, he is a family forever. Of course, the consequence will be horrible.

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) Such is definetly where one can tell the demons are essentially somewhat unhinged like the folk of slaanesh. Beneath the promise of liberation, each has dark desires swimming there. Then again...all people have dark thoughts and desires, tying back to the workings of the inner self- that what i mentioned of the nafs. The question is how one goes about them- either restraining oneself or using them in a way that does not cause extereme harm to oneself or others. The demons have taken to embracing them fully under the assumption such will lead to liberation for all. It's a twisted, but unsersrandable approach considering the demons, but ultimately drives them further into eerie deeds. Then again- there's the whole point this has an ethical dillema angle to it as well (which we discussed all the way back in this first chapter) though not really either. Covetous scares me a bit in that one of the greater fears I've seen in veteran testimonies is ptsd causing them to be unable to recognize something and doing something awful as a result- like waking up from a nightmare and imagining you're in a combat situation only to realize you nearly hurt somebody and you're not in such a situation. Abandon inducing bloodless has the implication they could start killing each other randomly in bursts of sex and death, and putridus feels like the kind of person who'd ruin a place from the inside out- like sauron in numenor. Oh yikes that really is a big lure for the dusk. The consequences would likely be catastrophic if he succumbs....wouldn't that mean it's possible the far off continent might be screwed too? Or just the world at large? ....I'm really hoping something comes up that can stymie the demonic advance. On the other hand, I can see how each of the princes desires are a reflection of rebelling from the opression and repression placed on them. Ideals like discipline, properiety and chivalry were used to dismiss their hurts and concerns- so why would they bother with them? It's a horrible outcome, but with tragically understandable motivations. This whole story seems to be a lesson where if you repress for too long, it will come spilling out in a far worse state.

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) Lets just say that in my my idea, that Pcm is aware of, the dusk will catch a break, I will leave at that and wait until the story is over to explain so I won't spoil the end of this series

@Anon Oh, they are unhinged alright. Very very unhinged! That is erotic premise of this series; good men turned into depraved hedonists and corrupt their loved ones into joining them. It actually requires a very liberal reading to assign them any virtues. With Covetous, I dont think i would ever go that far. The idea of his corruption is based around a soldier's divertisement that imporves their morales in the army, whether that is sex, wealth, or something else. Abandon's bloodlust was touched on in Chapter 1, he made men crave battles and pumped them with adrenaline. Had he killed someone with that ability? That would be up for you to decide. Putridus is fitting for intrigue. With the Grandmaster corrupted, a demon god is a terrifying prospect would it not? However, the Dusk is very much a local god and his cosmological impact on this realm is limited

@[Pcm](/user/show/10039396) Abandon seems to like fighting, but I think they like pleasure more. Why kill somebody if you can convert them? I'd imagine he's more desiring of the thrill of the fight (bloodlust) than the actual death- unless it's needed of course, but that likely is a last resort. Covetous affecting morale makes sense. Him giving the go ahead for them to loot makes sense- typically spoils of war are a thing and between likely knowing they're doomed, mind alreration making it harder to resist, and other demonic shenanigans they probably succumbed pretty quickly. He's a commander after all. Them being unhinged is honestly very fitting as they seem akin to the demons of slaanesh. It's stark seeing how more down to earth they were in earlier chapters compared to now. But that's likely because they were able to let loose more now than before- that unhinged nature to some degree was always there. There's definetly a very loose reading that's needed to even try to find any positive traits. They are there but...boy the circumstances and application are very dubious at best. If the dusk is a local god that probably means the east may be screwed for a long time, but hopefully everyone else should be able to stay safe. The north is likely going to go all in on the resistance. I kind of want the west to just sit there and realize the party's over. The north already got the memo- now its their turn. I'd imagine if the demons were driven back once before, it likely can happen again....but probably not for a very long time. In the meantime, it seems that the demons might be trying to plan a northern offensive....I really hope that doesn't go well- but considering gils kids survive- I think they will fail. Which would be very good. Also I'm a little fascinated over how Eddie became a draconian figure. It's interesting as he's more plant oriented. I wonder what they symbolism there is.... Quick question though- you mentioned the south is coastal but barren. Is that more a desert like environment near the sea? If son, I'd imagine if one stayed in the south but away from the eastern border, the ocean and closer to the western border one could technically be safe....well safe-ish considering the beastfolk. But better them than the demons. The scary thing about the demons is that amidst their hedonism some of them truly think this is liberation and a good thing. So I think in light of how repressive and unfair eastern society was- this seems amazing. So they probably are only further convinced that they are right. Which honestly i cant exactly blame them but they are also so much worse. Honestly, the dusk really dropped the ball will making the east a stable society. What were they even thinking? Then again....considering his plans seem to involve destroying things...maybe he didn't think that out enough.